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Wizardry board game


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#1 Molly Mae

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:18 PM

Spoiler for Lords

Spoiler for Wizards (Indies)


Spoiler for Phases: (OOP)


Spoiler for Map (not yet created)


Spoiler for Additional rules


Biggest discussion points are in green--they involve Winnter's ability and the rules for Movement. I'd really like opinions on this. The two go hand-in-hand, so resolution on one will also resolve the other (mostly).

EDIT: Added a "not".

Edited by Molly Mae, 07 October 2011 - 05:19 PM.

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#2 Molly Mae

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:23 PM

An additional note that I forgot to mention: Wizards may also invade and move as Lords do. Wizards win with the Lord they are attached to. A Wizard and Lord may invade a territory together and have an invasion bonus of 20%.

If two Lords successfully invade the same occupied territory on the same turn, the Lord with fewer lands gains the territory. If they have the same number of lands, it becomes neutral territory.
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#3 flamebirde

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:52 AM

do I sign up here?
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#4 plasmid

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:10 AM

The lords seem reasonably balanced except for the Anniata + Massian alliance.
Demincus can grow at ~2x a theoretical "vanilla" lord's rate early in the game, and closer to 1-1.5x near midgame (when most other players have a wizard to give themselves 2 invasions/turn). Endgame will depend on whether his increased invasion buff stays in place when it's down to him vs one other lord (and therefore only one employed wizard). If he loses his invasion buff then he will only have one invasion/turn against his opponent lord + wizard invasion and he will get stomped. If he keeps the invasion buff, it should stay balanced in endgame. Anyway, total strength will depend mostly on how early the wizards join other lords.
Drevis has a ~1.3x growth rate (if average invasion success rate is ~50% and his invasion success rate is ~65%).
The Anniata + Massian alliance as a whole has a ~2x growth rate compared to a single player.
The degree of advantage to Winnter and Movius seems very dependent on how the map is arranged. For Winnter, more lands = bigger advantage from movement ability but less advantage from starting with 4 lands. And unless the capital is extremely strategically positioned, it sounds like Movius would probably be underpowered compared to the other lords... capital immunity would probably not make that much difference if the players can fairly easily just invade different lands he controls until he's down to his last territory.
Calliah's power seems sort of useless if the wizard he forces to join him can leave anytime he wants... does the wizard have to stay until Calliah dies or dismisses him? If Calliah can force the wizard to stay, it seems he would have an early growth advantage similar to Demincus.

The wizards seem like they might be more problematic.
Trohomt's ability must be nullified if he is on the last territory that his lord owns, and Spinnysprout's ability must be nullified if there are only two lords in play, otherwise the game could end up in a stalemate. (Er, can Spinnysprout block ANY invasion from the named lord, or just an invasion into the land that he's at? If it's any invasion, then he seems too overpowered toward endgame when there are only a few lords. If it's only on the land he's at, then he seems underpowered compared to Trohomt.)
For Libronalah, does every player know where each lord is (which would help with anticipating where an invasion to redirect might come from), and can redirects end up making a lord invade a land that's not even attached to his current empire and other such complicated stuff?

If an invading lord captures the land that the defending lord happens to be sitting in, does the defending lord get kilt or just booted to an adjacent land that he owns? More to the point, when it gets closer to endgame, I could envision this turning into a total grind if there are two players and they each own like 20 territories and both of them are spending their time invading each other's territories with similar odds of a successful invasion. They would just trade territories as both lords move around capturing whatever enemy land they happen to be next to, with no real definitive head-to-head combat.

All of the above might be best evaluated by a test run of the game, but there is one more practical point. If this is to become a board game for people to play IRL, would you need to have 13 people (7 lords and 5 wizards and a host [so actions can be submitted and Tomathar redirects processed and the relationship between players and which lords they represent can be kept secret]) in your house to play a game?
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#5 flamebirde

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:39 PM

Plasmid, I think you made a mistake. The wizard doesn't get another invasion, If he chooses to invade, then he would add a 20% bonus to the lord he's attacking with.
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#6 Molly Mae

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:56 PM

Plasmid, I think you made a mistake. The wizard doesn't get another invasion, If he chooses to invade, then he would add a 20% bonus to the lord he's attacking with.

I got a big response coming up for Plasmid (and some changes based on his post), but Wizards do get their own invasion at -5%. The 20% bonus only happens if the lord and wizard are invading the same territory (even if not from the same territory).

The redirect kind of stems from the original mafia idea, but I've strayed from that. So I will be changing the redirect ability.

Edited by Molly Mae, 08 October 2011 - 08:57 PM.

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#7 MissKitten

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:34 PM

Meh. I'll sign up. I got nothing better to do. And maybe I'll get hotterthnfire to sign up too.
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#8 Molly Mae

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 06:03 PM

The lords seem reasonably balanced except for the Anniata + Massian alliance.
Demincus can grow at ~2x a theoretical "vanilla" lord's rate early in the game, and closer to 1-1.5x near midgame (when most other players have a wizard to give themselves 2 invasions/turn). Endgame will depend on whether his increased invasion buff stays in place when it's down to him vs one other lord (and therefore only one employed wizard). If he loses his invasion buff then he will only have one invasion/turn against his opponent lord + wizard invasion and he will get stomped. If he keeps the invasion buff, it should stay balanced in endgame. Anyway, total strength will depend mostly on how early the wizards join other lords.

He keeps his invasion buff.

Additional note: Vassal Lords and Wizards also get 1 invasion per turn.

Drevis has a ~1.3x growth rate (if average invasion success rate is ~50% and his invasion success rate is ~65%).

Base % will be 50 and be modified by terrain. Like-terrain territories will be 50-50.

The Anniata + Massian alliance as a whole has a ~2x growth rate compared to a single player.

I think that puts them at a disadvantage, though, based on how Amber, ST3, et al played out. The team with the natural advantage gets hit hard early. While there are no other formal alliances in the game, any teams may work together to eliminate a common threat.

The degree of advantage to Winnter and Movius seems very dependent on how the map is arranged. For Winnter, more lands = bigger advantage from movement ability but less advantage from starting with 4 lands. And unless the capital is extremely strategically positioned, it sounds like Movius would probably be underpowered compared to the other lords... capital immunity would probably not make that much difference if the players can fairly easily just invade different lands he controls until he's down to his last territory.

There are going to be ~25 territories, although the map isn't finalised.

Movius ability change: Movius gets +10% to defense on all territories as long as he controls the capital?

In the original concept, there were to be 4-5 cities that gave bonuses to whomever controlled them. Should I go back to that and give Movius a bigger beginning advantage?

Calliah's power seems sort of useless if the wizard he forces to join him can leave anytime he wants... does the wizard have to stay until Calliah dies or dismisses him? If Calliah can force the wizard to stay, it seems he would have an early growth advantage similar to Demincus.

Good call. Calliah can either force a wizard to stay employed OR choose a new wizard if the old one leaves. Problem with latter patch: If no wizards remain. I'll decide on the first (forcing the wizard to stay employed) unless there's protest.

The wizards seem like they might be more problematic.
Trohomt's ability must be nullified if he is on the last territory that his lord owns, and Spinnysprout's ability must be nullified if there are only two lords in play, otherwise the game could end up in a stalemate. (Er, can Spinnysprout block ANY invasion from the named lord, or just an invasion into the land that he's at? If it's any invasion, then he seems too overpowered toward endgame when there are only a few lords. If it's only on the land he's at, then he seems underpowered compared to Trohomt.)

I see the problem. Hmm. Patch: Trohomt can choose one territory controlled by his Lord and protect it from 1 invasion. If many players invade, the ability only applies to the first invasion.

Spinnysprout chooses a player and phase to block: so he can choose to block Plasmid's action or Kluemaster's invasion. Invasion has its own phase (separate from action). Any ability (even passive) might be blockable (donno how to block the Massian-Anniata alliance...). Bonuses for controlling the capital or Trohomt's ability could be cancelled that round. Likewise, a player's movement or invasion might be blocked.

For Libronalah, does every player know where each lord is (which would help with anticipating where an invasion to redirect might come from), and can redirects end up making a lord invade a land that's not even attached to his current empire and other such complicated stuff?

The redirect is going away. I'm going to get him a new ability. I came to him first and didn't consider him again after rule changes. =/

But Lords' locations will be listed by character name. Wizards will only be listed as a Wizard (not player or character).

If an invading lord captures the land that the defending lord happens to be sitting in, does the defending lord get kilt or just booted to an adjacent land that he owns? More to the point, when it gets closer to endgame, I could envision this turning into a total grind if there are two players and they each own like 20 territories and both of them are spending their time invading each other's territories with similar odds of a successful invasion. They would just trade territories as both lords move around capturing whatever enemy land they happen to be next to, with no real definitive head-to-head combat.

The lord/wizard would be moved to an available adjacent territory of the Lord's choosing (timing might be bad, though).

All of the above might be best evaluated by a test run of the game, but there is one more practical point. If this is to become a board game for people to play IRL, would you need to have 13 people (7 lords and 5 wizards and a host [so actions can be submitted and Tomathar redirects processed and the relationship between players and which lords they represent can be kept secret]) in your house to play a game?

I doubt I would adapt this directly as an actual board game, but it could be done with fewer people (3-5, maybe?). If adapted, the host would be eliminated and player+character (RID? =P) distribution would be public knowledge. The real-time gameplay (all players submit actions at the same time) might be given up to order of play. It's possible, but I doubt I'd actually do it. Although it might be a project for next year's panel at Daisho, since Hirk and I aren't doing "Building Your Board Game" this year...
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#9 Molly Mae

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 07:56 PM

Spoiler for Lords

Spoiler for Wizards (Indies)


Spoiler for Phases: (OOP)


Spoiler for Map (not yet created)


Spoiler for Additional rules


Repost.

Everything in bold is new or updated.

I'm considering making all Player/Role combinations known. Thoughts on that?
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#10 plasmid

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 03:07 AM

Ok, mostly just some minor clarification questions to add into the OP when it gets finalized.

- Do Drevis' lackeys (er, vassals) and their wizards get +5% on invasions?
- If multiple different factions invade Winnter, whose attacks go through?
- When a lord invades a territory, do they move into that territory? If Demincus invades multiple territories or another lord does with Libronalah's help, do they pick which of the invaded territories they move into?
- Do the wizards roam around the map while they are un-recruited, or do they suddenly appear in the land of their lord once they're recruited?
- Is there a limit to the number of vassals you can have?
- If a player gets kilt from invasions by multiple factions on the same turn, which one claims him as a vassal? Does he get to pick? Since vassals seem like they would make a huge shift in the balance of power (+1 invasion per turn by the vassal and +1 from the vassal's wizard), determining rules for who gains a vassal seems very important.
- Do vassals keep their special abilities, and does it apply to their new lord as well?

For movement, I vote for letting a lord and wizard move to any territory in their realm (unless their realm gets fragmented, then move to any territory within the fragment they're currently in) just to keep the game moving and not have people waste five turns crossing the map.

I would lean towards making player-role combinations known to everybody. It just seems like it would be easier to pull off cloak and dagger stuff than if you had to post "Does Winnter want to tell me who he is so we can do some strategizing?" Also makes recruiting wizards much more straightforward if they know what they're getting into.

I'm also still a little worried that endgames might drag on. How would you feel about having each player publicly name one of their starting territories as their stronghold, and saying that having your stronghold captured = defeat?

Oh, and be sure to add the part about vassals being able to invade territories to the OP once it's ready to roll.
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