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9 replies to this topic

#1 Lost in space

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:06 AM

How much is enough?
How rich do you have to be to be rich?

A colleague of mine drove home a client and was a little taken aback by the in/out front entrance gates, the drive, the grounds, the cars and apparently somewhat better life.
The driver commented "I would like to be a peeny behind you". The client replied matter of factly "I'm just broke a different level."
Now that's an interesting view from a guy was not in the top 500. A wage earner (corperate director )
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#2 octopuppy

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:36 PM

How much is enough?
How rich do you have to be to be rich?

Do you have to be rich? It's a bit like saying how tall do you have to be to be tall.
I think money is very important insofar as it firstly enables you to get by, and secondly (if you have enough) enables you to exercise control over how you live your life. In my opinion, if you are rich enough that you no longer need to make choices based on the need to make money, you are rich enough.
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#3 Lausus

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:54 PM

Well, of course it's relative, as you've alluded to. But surely a rich man is the one who is happy with his life right? Maybe that's too corny. You are rich when no one denies your claim of being rich.
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#4 statman

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:51 PM

A rich man is one who can live with what he has.
Having money does not make one rich, it makes one wealthy.
The more you have, the more you usually want. Those with the most money are sometimes the loneliest. When you have money, do your friends like you for who you are, or what you have? Would they still like you if you lost it all?
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#5 ADParker

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 04:32 AM

To be rich (purely talking about how much money one has, the other points are valid of course) one would have enough money to be able to do whatever one wants whenever one wants.

How much money that would require is wholly dependant on the person and his needs and desires.
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#6 alphaprime73

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:55 AM

Im not rich by scoiety standards. Im happy, I live within my means, I want for nothing (I have all the toys I desire), My kids are well clothed, they and my wife love me. Im good looking too.Ha ha ha. People see my life and some are jelous. All this makes me rich beyond hard cash. What is rich? I think it depends on where you put your values.
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#7 octopuppy

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:59 AM

Im not rich by scoiety standards. Im happy, I live within my means, I want for nothing (I have all the toys I desire), My kids are well clothed, they and my wife love me. Im good looking too.Ha ha ha. People see my life and some are jelous. All this makes me rich beyond hard cash.

It's interesting that you should mention other people's jealousy as a part of what makes you rich. Realistically, I expect that does form a significant part of what most people mean by "rich", and perhaps seeking the envy of others is a big part of what drives many people. I wonder if you believe there is any real value in that?
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#8 Brandonb

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:15 PM

How much is enough?
How rich do you have to be to be rich?

I wrote an essay on a topic similar to this not too long ago. It explains why the rich are rich, and why people perceive them as too wealthy. It also explains how the whole view of "they have enough money already" is making the income gap b/w the rich and the poor widen. You may read it if you like, but it represents my finding in the whole "the rich are too rich and greedy, they already have enough" controversy.
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Many people have been socialized to believe that the income gap is a result of greedy rich people taking advantage of the poor. It is a fact that the rich are getting richer, and that the poor are getting poorer. The confusion occurs when solving the question of “why” this is happening. It’s apparent that through a combination of government socialization and persuasion, the poor (low income and low-middle income) have come to believe that it is wise to tax from the rich and give to the poor. However, the truth is that the income gap is widening because we tax the rich too much. But of course, we have been socialized to believe otherwise.
It is important to understand that there are basically three ways to make money with money. One is interest on savings in a bank. There is virtually no risk involved, but there is little interest earned. Another is investment in the stocks of big stable companies such as Coca-Cola, or buying government bonds. Again, this involves very little risk, and therefore very little return from the investment. The rich make the most money by investing in small people or businesses with big potential. The risk is high, but so is the payout. A business owner tends to know business, and is therefore competent in determining smart investment decisions. Sure, there is a risk, but the payout is well worth it.
For the rich, this is the fastest and easiest way to make money. By investing in small businesses, the rich receive a large turnaround in profits. At the same time, the non-rich people that were invested in, turn around and expand their businesses, grow rich, and create jobs. Then those people gain the ability to invest money, create new business and in turn create jobs. A never-ending increase in jobs and variety in the marketplace is created. This is the reason that the U.S. still has one of the highest rates of individual economic mobility, both up and down. It comes down to a combination of an individual’s decisions and opportunities. Those who make good decisions and have few opportunities should be able to advance their economic standing; in turn they will create more opportunities for themselves to take advantage. However, those people who habitually make bad decisions, financial or otherwise, are not going to advance.
People believe that a Robin Hood tax system is the way to go. It’s good in theory, but in reality it doesn’t work. The government – or better yet – politicians, pander to the poor by saying that they will raise taxes on the rich and give them to the poor. Though in practice, the government does in fact confiscate money from the rich, but keeps most of the money for itself, then gives the rest to the poor.
The vast majority of the rich are the business owners (high income through production) and the wealthy (high income through investment). When taxes are raised on the rich, rather than forfeit all profits to taxation, business owners raise the price of the goods they produce in order to cover the higher taxes. This prevents them from having their profits eaten into, because they pass on the cost to the consumer. So the business owners continue to get rich as they had before, but the poor now get poorer because of the inflation in prices. However, the government promised to give the confiscated money back to the poor. After the government pockets most of the money, the rest is given to the poor through welfare and various other government programs. Though it’s only enough to cover the increased price of goods, not enough to make up any ground in inflation-adjusted income. Meanwhile, the middle class suffers because not only do they get hit with the tax burden, but they do not get the return on their money in the form of welfare. This is why the middle-class is shrinking.
Sometimes the government taxes rich business owners too much, to the point that the price of their goods is so high that they are no longer competitively priced in the market, then no one buys the product. This forces the rich business owners to move their companies over seas where they do not have the same tax burden, but in turn they also take the jobs with them. On top of that, the wealthy would not invest in domestic small businesses anymore, for fear of the terrible tax consequences, so it’s better for them to invest their money over seas. The final result is that the price of the goods is still high, but now the jobs that were there before are now gone, and there are no new jobs being created. This forces the poor become poorer, unemployed, and even more dependent on welfare.
It is important to note that the model for the income gap only refers to gross income – the money that is made before taxes are taken out. The rich continue making more money, because they keep making the same decisions that made them rich in the first place. However, their income is “grossly” exaggerated by the income gap-chart because the taxes on the rich business owners are indirectly added into their gross income. The only accurate depiction in the chart is the income of the poor, which reflects combined work income and welfare income and the lack of taxation.
The ignorance of the masses on the topic of taxation has caused the masses to get suckered in when politicians like Barack Obama say things like, "[I will] reverse some of those tax cuts that went to the wealthiest Americans." (Beaumont). Or when Hillary Clinton said, “I want to take those profits [from domestic oil companies]...” (Beck). These politicians deliberately socialize the masses to believe that this is a good thing. When translated these phrases mean “I will raise taxes on the rich.” People do not understand that this means the poor are going to pay higher prices for everything that they buy. In effect, it means the poor are going to completely absorb the tax burden. While the rich are going to look like they are making even more money, when they are only covering their new increased tax liability. This in turn makes the low-income earners want the rich to be taxed even more.
All the while the only one that’s gaining any money is the politician that turned the low-income workers against their bosses. Because of the inefficiency of the government, the money that was taken from the rich gets filtered through so much bureaucracy that there is only enough being passed on to the poor to just barely cover the price inflation. It wasn’t always like this, “In the early years of our republic, the federal government levied few taxes. The Feds managed to get by with only a handful: taxes on alcohol, carriages, and some basic consumer items such as sugar and tobacco.” (Boortz). Before the income tax, before welfare, there was still an income gap. However, it was nothing compared to the one that is burdening us now.
Before the income tax, back when people could invest in whatever however they chose, there was no government middle-man picking out dimes from every income dollar. A single member of a household could support an entire family on one single income. But now, there is so much government interference in the so-called “free market” that it is nearly impossible for the poor to gain upward economic mobility on sheer effort and wise decision-making. The poor have been socialized that through supporting tax raises on high-income income earners, they may be able to advance themselves. The income gap is not any fault of the rich; it is the fault of the low-income earner’s decisions, and the deception of the system that convinced them RobinHood taxation is right.
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So basically, there is no "too rich" because through a natural free market, the wealthy make others wealthy. They have obviously earned their money and made wise decisions with it. They should keep their money and do what they like with it because it only helps in the long run. Of course, there are the occasional few who do not earn their money through wise decisions and hard work, and they don't stay rich for long.
"How much is enough?
How rich do you have to be to be rich?"
It's never enough, and at the same time it's all relative to personal satisfaction and achievement.
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#9 Brandonb

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:29 PM

Sorry, I don't mean to "take a dump" in this thread. I just realized that this could skew the conversation in the direction of taxation, but in my opinion, taxation is truly THE societal guideline for "How much is enough? & How rich do you have to be to be rich?"
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#10 onetruth

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 02:31 AM

For me, enough money would be having enough money after taking care of basic necessities and bills in order to help out others (pay a bill for them, buy them a meal, etc).
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