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Are you planning to vote in the 2012 election


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502 replies to this topic

#11 benjer3

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:44 AM

I agree with almost everything that Quag and Dawh have said, and I'd just like to add my two cents:

While it is impossible to have a perfect government as long as it involves imperfect humans, and while most people greatly dislike many of their governments' aspects, it needs to be remembered that without government there is only chaos. Governments allow at least some peace and cooperation in what would otherwise be a violent, unsafe, primitive, brutish world.

Of course, totalitarian governments are not any better than complete anarchy. There has to be a balance between freedom and oppression. With human nature an unavoidable obstacle, democracy seems to be the best solution.

Taxes and our other duties as citizens are needed to keep these institutions running. They are the prices of having some chance at "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Furthermore, by not doing these duties, you are essentially saying that you are revoking your citizenship. Thus, you are an "illegal alien," and the government has the right to remove you via prison; you also have no right to the benefits of citizenship if you fail to do your part.

Now it seems we're stuck between two evils: support a government with which we disagree or rebel against an institution that gives us safety and peace. The solution? Do our part as a citizen to make our government and our nation the best it can be, including voting, expressing opinions, giving support, and, most importantly, creating unity.

My wise political quote: "United we stand, divided we fall."
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#12 unreality

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:45 AM

I'll probably vote for Ron Paul, Gary Johnson or whoever runs with the Green Party, if you must know though. First I need to register because I didn't turn 18 until between the last one and now so I haven't done that yet :lol: Does anyone know about the time limits there? I should probably get on that...
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#13 unreality

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:46 AM

im a social liberal fiscal conservative. there is no such party here in canada or it seems in the US either.


It's called the Libertarian Party (like me :) ) You're not alone. IN fact it's the 3rd biggest party
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#14 unreality

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:49 AM

Now it seems we're stuck between two evils: support a government with which we disagree or rebel against an institution that gives us safety and peace.


this is a quote war so I'm gonna throw down mr franklin: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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#15 Quag

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:56 AM

Sure one is not as bad as the other perhaps but they're both using force to dominate a less powerful. Argue the semantics all you want but the end result is the same, and that's control.


control is not violence. unfortunately governments are required for a functioning societly they may do things you dont like but better to be in a democracy where you can fire the people in charge onc ein a while instead of needing a revolution liek all other systems of govt.

That's the whole point. By not voting you are making a statement. A statement more powerful than you could make by voting, perhaps. But I don't really believe in nonvoting either. I plan on voting for a third party because that's even more impact... aka, your vote is tallied, but in defiance of the dems/reps, and in favor of something you actually support. When anyone says they've voted for a Democrat or Republican I immediately lose respect for them (political respect at least), though when people say they don't vote I lose a lot of respect there too because I chalk it up to apathy. But when they don't vote as a legitimate statement, I can accept and respect that at least.


If you dont vote no political party will pay much attention to you as you are not voting AGAINST them you have basically opted out of the political process and left your fate completely in the hands of others. Yeha if you vote and your side loses you still lost but the winners will know that X% of th epopulation is against them and will keep an eye on that and perhaps only perhaps try to find ways to win you over next time. dont vote they wont even bother doing that.

Of course it doesn't make sense but it's the unfortunate reality. Money talks and despite the rampant liberalism we still live in a capitalist society, so of course money has found its way into free speech. Whoever has more money, does indeed have more ability to reach more people with their message.


This is true up to a point there is a certain level where you saturate the market with your message and even if you spend 2x mor eit wont affect anything in fact often it does the reverse as people get turned off by the obvious attempts to "buy" votes.

That's so distant. Congressmen hardly do what you want them to, and a lot of times they don't even vote. It may be the best way but it still sucks.But the majority of the organized world we have to put up with is terrible in one way or another so what can you do


Ye sgovt can always be improved but much thought must be put into it often the attempts to improve govt has only made things worse. As a whole i hope everyone here can agree that the systems we have (in democratic countries) nowadays is better than have existed in the past. The progress may be slow and often beset by setbacks but hopefully it will continue to move towards a better wolrd in the long run
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#16 Quag

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:01 AM

It's called the Libertarian Party (like me ) You're not alone. IN fact it's the 3rd biggest party


Please note I'm in Canada, there is no libertarian party here. I can't say I know enough about it in the US to say if it is what i am. Labels can be misleading.
We vote on monday and I still not sure who i'll vote for or if i'll spoil my ballot (in-laws think I always vote conservative because they always vote liberal and I argue with them a lot (they cant even imagine a vote for the NDP), but unlike them I DO NOT always vote for the same party
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#17 benjer3

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:14 AM

this is a quote war so I'm gonna throw down mr franklin: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Yes, I would have to say I agree with this. But what I am trying to say is not that we should just go willy-nilly along with our government, but that we cannot just ignorantly rebel.

The difference between the Revolution and now is that the colonies were a united people fighting against a tyrannical outside power while we seem to be trying to knock out our rotting supports without thinking about the roof that would fall right on our heads. We're not united or organized; we just care about getting rid of our only shelter. If change for the better is to happen, it needs to happen from the bottom up. If the people are united then the government will flourish, and then the nation can receive the power, respect, and pride it once had.
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#18 Use the Force

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:15 AM

I must say I dislike your use of the term violence here. The govt of does not shoot you with bullets if you dont pay taxes. They will fine you and if you continue to refuse to pay your taxes they can put you in jail but i do not consider incarceration as violence. that is an increadibly broad view of the term you are using and comparing incarceration for unpaid taxes to the horrors of war in afganistan and iraq is well.. unseemly to me.
I also disagree with your point on being forced to pay for wars you dislike. What about things that dont bother you but may bother others. should they have the right to refuse paying taxes on those items? If you go down that road eventually what you get is just anarchy as everyone will refuse to pay taxes on everything.

If I refuse to to let the government law enforcers bring me to jail for the non-crime that I commit (not paying for the Afghanistan War), then yes, they will shoot bullets at me in an effort to uphold their law.

What about thinks that don't bother me but bother some other people? I think they should have the right not pay for those things, yes. And yes, if you go down this road of not pointing guns at people to force them to pay for things then you're on your way to anarchy. I am an anarchist. What's bad about that? All it means is that I don't support the use of violence against people except in self defense. If someone comes after me with a knife I'd shoot them if that was the only way to stop them from hurting me, but not if they were minding their own business, hurting nobody, and I thought they should have to pay for this or that just because they live in the middle third of North America. Why would I point a gun at them then? Just because I think they should pay for something doesn't mean I'm right. I choose to let them disagree.
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#19 Use the Force

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:17 AM

thin it's a civic duty to vote, and personally, I wish that we had mandatory voting here in the US.

Mandatory voting? So what happens if I don't vote? You support the government locking me up in jail? And if I refuse to go to jail, you support the government coming after me with guns?
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#20 Q-Cumber

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:18 AM

Not the best thoughts on your BIRTHDAY, are they?
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