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#21 bushindo

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 01:34 AM

I like your thinking very much ;), but its

Spoiler for


In the original setting of the problem:
"In a future not so far way, Earth archaeologists find on a far away planet a fragment from a long lost civilization. This fragment involves an unknown operation *|*. Unlocking its secrets may lead to a breakthrough in understanding their civilization. "

Please allow me to state (and add to the OP) 2 informal assumptions I made when posting the original setting of the problem:
1) We're talking about aliens so they *might* possess different insights than humans.
2) It's a fairly used operation on their world, so one *might* expect the symmetry /simplicity / "beauty" of a human operation (e.g. addition/ multiplication, etc.)


Disclaimer: I am not implying the fact that an alien operation is bound to be hard to grasp by humans, just that in worst-case scenarios it might be difficult to translate in human-operations. This may or may not be the case here. Just sayin'.

P.S. I'm not sure how sane I am at this hour so if I don't make much sense, feel free to skip these assumptions. Other than the slightest hint possible, there's no real value / necessity in these assumptions.

EDIT: grammar :(


I was just being facetious. I know I didn't have the correct function, but wanted to point out the fact that

Spoiler for

The challenge is to find one that has 'symmetry /simplicity / "beauty"'. I'm not really good at this type of problem, so I'll wait for the correct answer from the brain denizens. Nice puzzle. It's rare for a puzzle on brainden to be unsolved this long.

Edited by bushindo, 19 November 2010 - 01:39 AM.

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#22 araver

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 01:50 AM

I was just being facetious. I know I didn't have the correct function, but wanted to point out the fact that

Spoiler for


The challenge is to find one that has 'symmetry /simplicity / "beauty"'. I'm not really good at this type of problem, so I'll wait for the correct answer from the brain denizens. Nice puzzle. It's rare for a puzzle on brainden to be unsolved this long.


You are right and also, I know that you are very good (from this and other posts you made in other topics) with linear algebra. ;)
Also, I forgot to say that you've probably uncovered
Spoiler for a possible major hint


However even if the answer is not obtained on this particular path, this doesn't imply that you cannot reach it. As I know from other topics, you're also a very good programmer, so you have very good chances to approach this problem (successfully) from another angle. I believe there are more ways to approach and solve it - either from mathematical specific viewpoints or theoretical computer-science specific viewpoints.

OFF-TOPIC :blush: Thank you for the (implied) compliment. I was worried at first that no one would try to solve it.

Edited by araver, 19 November 2010 - 01:54 AM.

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#23 superprismatic

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:26 PM

Evaluate 2 *|* 1 please.
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#24 araver

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 03:39 AM

This will be the final example, as I feel it's enough info already.

Recap:
 21 *|* 7 = 11
 17924 *|* 10751 = 851
 1089 *|* 121 = 2069
 10 *|* 23 = 6
 1 *|* 0 = 2
 999 *|* 909 = 1359
 14 *|* 14 = 14
 2 *|* 1 = 0

and
a *|* b = b *|* a

Edited by araver, 20 November 2010 - 03:43 AM.

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#25 superprismatic

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:30 AM

This will be the final example, as I feel it's enough info already.

Recap:

 21 *|* 7 = 11
 17924 *|* 10751 = 851
 1089 *|* 121 = 2069
 10 *|* 23 = 6
 1 *|* 0 = 2
 999 *|* 909 = 1359
 14 *|* 14 = 14
 2 *|* 1 = 0

and
a *|* b = b *|* a

Oh...OK. I guess I'm done. Thanks for the puzzle!
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#26 araver

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 09:58 AM

Oh...OK. I guess I'm done. Thanks for the puzzle!


What I meant by no more examples is that I think there's enough information for someone to solve it. It's actually very hard to judge how difficult a puzzle is when creating it. :)

If it does not happen in say, 4 days, I'll start adding more examples. I don't want it to remain unsolved :)
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#27 araver

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 11:42 AM

Declaring open-season on questions again :D

Ask for a particular "a *|* b =?" and I'll oblige. (Of course, not the pair the OP asks for :P)

A recap on what was so far (including a question from amateur that I missed, sorry) :
 21 *|* 7 = 11
 17924 *|* 10751 = 851
 1089 *|* 121 = 2069
 10 *|* 23 = 6
 1 *|* 0 = 2
 999 *|* 909 = 1359
 14 *|* 14 = 14
 2 *|* 1 = 0
 1 *|* 1 = 1

and
a *|* b = b *|* a

Edited by araver, 25 November 2010 - 11:43 AM.

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#28 araver

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 11:51 AM

Adding another hint to the list:
 21 *|* 7 = 11
 17924 *|* 10751 = 851
 1089 *|* 121 = 2069
 10 *|* 23 = 6
 1 *|* 0 = 2
 999 *|* 909 = 1359
 14 *|* 14 = 14
 2 *|* 1 = 0
 1 *|* 1 = 1
 a *|* b = b *|* a
 a *|* a = a

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#29 :-)

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 11:48 PM

3 *|* 0?
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#30 araver

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 11:51 PM

Adding it to the list
 21 *|* 7 = 11
 17924 *|* 10751 = 851
 1089 *|* 121 = 2069
 10 *|* 23 = 6
 1 *|* 0 = 2
 999 *|* 909 = 1359
 14 *|* 14 = 14
 2 *|* 1 = 0
 1 *|* 1 = 1
 a *|* b = b *|* a
 a *|* a = a
 3 *|* 0 = 6

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Summer of 2014:
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Almost random quotes:
>> Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.




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