39 replies to this topic

[araver]

Spoiler for What I have so far - one big half of the algorithm

Letter translation depends on how neighbours are between themselves - i.e. context sensitive rule.

	>	=	<
A	Z	A	B
B	g	H	i
C			
D	E	F	G
E	D	E	F
F			
G	j	k	L
H	I	J	K
I	H	I	J
J			
K	R	S	T
L			
M	P	Q	R
N	O	P	Q
O	N	O	P
P			
Q			
R	W	X	Y
S	V	W	X
T	U	v	w
U	t	u	V
V	E	f	G
W	D	E	F
X			
Y			
Z			

E.g. aAb in the command
If a>b then A->Z (e.g. CAB)
If a=b then A->A (e.g. SAS)
If a<b then A->B (e.g. BAC)

ARKANSAS and KANSAS made me understand this rule (=)

[Vineetrika]

Spoiler for What I have so far - one big half of the algorithm

Letter translation depends on how neighbours are between themselves - i.e. context sensitive rule.

	>	=	<
A	Z	A	B
B	g	H	i
C			
D	E	F	G
E	D	E	F
F			
G	j	k	L
H	I	J	K
I	H	I	J
J			
K	R	S	T
L			
M	P	Q	R
N	O	P	Q
O	N	O	P
P			
Q			
R	W	X	Y
S	V	W	X
T	U	v	w
U	t	u	V
V	E	f	G
W	D	E	F
X			
Y			
Z			

E.g. aAb in the command
If a>b then A->Z (e.g. CAB)
If a=b then A->A (e.g. SAS)
If a<b then A->B (e.g. BAC)

ARKANSAS and KANSAS made me understand this rule (=)

Spoiler for Filled in the rest

        >       =       <
A       Z       A       B
B       G       H       I
C       F	G	H                
D       E       F       G
E       D       E       F
F       K	L	M                
G       J       K       L
H       I       J       K
I       H       I       J
J       S	T	U                
K       R       S       T
L       Q	R	S                
M       P       Q       R
N       O       P       Q
O       N       O       P
P       Y	Z	A                
Q       X	Y	Z                
R       W       X       Y
S       V       W       X
T       U       V       W
U       T       U       V
V       E       F       G
W       D       E       F
X       C	D	E                
Y	B	C	D	                       
Z       A	B	C 

Edited by Vineetrika, 04 November 2010 - 08:05 PM.

[araver]

Spoiler for Final table

>	=	<
A	Z	A	B
B	G	H	I
C	F	G	H
D	E	F	G
E	D	E	F
F	K	L	M
G	J	K	L
H	I	J	K
I	H	I	J
J			
K	R	S	T
L	Q	R	S
M	P	Q	R
N	O	P	Q
O	N	O	P
P	Y	Z	A
Q			
R	W	X	Y
S	V	W	X
T	U	V	W
U	T	U	V
V	E	F	G
W	D	E	F
X	C	D	E
Y	B	C	D
Z	A	B	C

Rules for Q and J cannot be certain since there is no natural occurrence in the commands, but logic would dictate (a.k.a I'm biased towards )

J	S	T	U
Q	X	Y	Z

Edit: You beat me to it
Kudos for the start rule. I was way off on that one.

Edited by araver, 04 November 2010 - 08:15 PM.

[Cherry Lane]

araver and vineetrika -

Spoiler for

it looks like you've created a table bassed on your observations of the known commands. But the password needs to be able to be found without referencing this table. So what rule determines which three letters are associated with each starting letter? this is where I'm lost. in different terms: you should be able to definitively determine the three letters associated with J and Q even though they haven't already been used, right?

edit: oh, and nice job!

Edited by Cherry Lane, 04 November 2010 - 09:03 PM.

[araver]

araver and vineetrika -

Spoiler for

it looks like you've created a table bassed on your observations of the known commands. But the password needs to be able to be found without referencing this table. So what rule determines which three letters are associated with each starting letter? this is where I'm lost. in different terms: you should be able to definitively determine the three letters associated with J and Q even though they haven't already been used, right?

Spoiler for answer for CL

Correct, I was too bent to confirm that the table is indeed that one.

Rule for vowels is simple:
Go down 1 space in alphabet if left>right neighbor
Go up 1 space in alphabet if left < right neighbor.
Stay where you are if neighbors are equal.

For consonants :
Count the spaces up to the next vowel in the alphabet (e.g. for K next vowel is O)
Count the spaces again from that vowel to arrive at the opposite letter.(e.g. for K - O - S).
This is the letter for equal case.
Same rule as vowels for cases < and >.

Actually its the same rule, just that it's easier to see for vowels first and then extrapolate for consonants.

P.S. The table only makes breaking easier. It should stay under 40 seconds after a little practice.

[octopuppy]

Spoiler for ABORT

IPYUZIPY

Password accepted. System shutting down.

Seems I picked the wrong time to go out, it's all gone down!
Well done indeed araver, I knew you wouldn't let me down.
Credit also to Vineetrika for starting and completing the algorithm.

I was going to note that Cherry Lane is right about not using the table, and challenge you to work out my technique, but as I was typing this araver did just that.

Spoiler for The technique...

...is very fast in practice, <30 seconds typically (since vowels are trivial). I count up to the next vowel using my fingers (never more than 5 for a consonant) then count the fingers back off to move on the same amount (that's not using an external aid since they are a part of me )

I hope that was a satisfying puzzle, it looked like the final stretch was fun!

[phaze]

I count up to the next vowel using my fingers (never more than 5 for a consonant) then count the fingers back off to move on the same amount (that's not using an external aid since they are a part of me )

Quick someone chop off his hands so that he does not attempt to destroy the rest of the world.

[octopuppy]

Quick someone chop off his hands so that he does not attempt to destroy the rest of the world.

I'll have to start counting in binary

[araver]

Spoiler for The technique...

...is very fast in practice, <30 seconds typically (since vowels are trivial). I count up to the next vowel using my fingers (never more than 5 for a consonant) then count the fingers back off to move on the same amount (that's not using an external aid since they are a part of me )

I hope that was a satisfying puzzle, it looked like the final stretch was fun!

Nice technique and indeed the most natural in practice we've seen so far in the games :

Thank you for this challenge, octopuppy. I had so much fun running around in circles over the patterns, until finally seeing it.

[araver]

So, any takers for the Evil Mastermind's role? CherryLane, you said something about a try? Dawh, Vineetrika?
Anyone willing?

I killed my half-baked idea and am currently playing a game so I haven't been able to come up with something so far.