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Government for the people. How?


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#591 gvg

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:40 PM

Agreed =)

And that is an interesting experiment. But I want to know one thing: If the bowl emptied, would that end it there and then? If so, then what the participants did was smart for them, if not, then I'm shocked that the first person didn't take the enire bowl each time. Just wondering.

But I agree with all the points you made.

Personally, instead of something like NAFTA, I think Cnanda, the US, and Mexico should become a sort of North American EU. It would solve a lot of problems (illegal immigration, etc.) no?
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#592 dawh

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:51 PM

Agreed =)

And that is an interesting experiment. But I want to know one thing: If the bowl emptied, would that end it there and then? If so, then what the participants did was smart for them, if not, then I'm shocked that the first person didn't take the enire bowl each time. Just wondering.

But I agree with all the points you made.

Personally, instead of something like NAFTA, I think Cnanda, the US, and Mexico should become a sort of North American EU. It would solve a lot of problems (illegal immigration, etc.) no?

Yeah, the experiment ended if the bowl ever emptied. They ran several tests, but I don't remember if it was with the same people, or if they got different people each time, but gave them different instructions.

I don't see us starting an EU style arrangement with anyone anytime soon. That would necessitate our admitting that we are on an equal footing with other countries and American conservatives (the most conservative kind of conservative) wouldn't ever let us do that. They know that their influence in the world is waning, so they don't want to let any "chinks" in the armor show. They are incapable of recognizing that their knee-jerk hyper-patriotism is further driving a wedge between themselves and the conservatives of the rest of the Western world. That's probably the biggest chink there is; their incapacity to recognize that sometimes compromise is necessary.
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#593 gvg

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:36 PM

Completely right. But, I het to say it like this, those hyper-conservatives are dying out. Eventually, when the new generation takes over, we might look into this kind of thing.

The irony is that we are actually BEHIND many countries, and doin an EU type system would actually be a benefit.

But let's not bother conservatives with facts. It could hurt thier brains =)
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#594 dawh

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 07:38 PM

I'm not generally one to dredge up ancient threads, but I ran across this article on Salon.com talking about secular humanism and its faults (according to the author). As the main proponents of secular humanism are those pushing for world government, it applied to one of the topics that we were talking about here (though also related to the thread on the 2012 US Presidential Election).

The author, Michael Lind highlights the problem of the naive view on globalism:

For all the variations, the common theory of human nature underlying contemporary secular humanism seems to be cosmopolitan utilitarianism, the conviction that human beings, if liberated from superstition by science, would behave less like selfish, scheming social apes and more like self-sacrificing social insects, giving their all for the good of the 7 billion members of the global human hive.

From an evolutionary perspective (which is something of a cornerstone of humanist thought), the whole "selfish, scheming social apes" thing doesn't really bode well for developing robust, rational world government.

I like Lind's conclusion to the discussion:

Our simian psychology has obvious implications for naive models of democracy, in which a neutral, rational public listens dispassionately to all sides before making up its hyperlogical collective mind. And it has implications as well for naive models of economics, in which consumers and producers perceive, think and act with computer-like accuracy...[I]t should render questionable all claims to wise and disinterested leadership, including those of America’s own altruistic progressive technocrats who propose policies to "nudge" the unenlightened masses into doing the right thing. It makes more sense to think of our leaders and intellectuals as half-crazed hooting howler monkeys -- just like the rest of us.

I can't really think of a better analogy for how our government is working right now. :duh:
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#595 gvg

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 09:37 PM

It LIVES!

I didn't know that was a part of secular humanism. Of course it's naive to think that all of a sudden human selfishness will just 'poof' away.

And yes, the conclusion is a good one. i agree =)

I'll read the whole article when I get the chance (damn my summer school work), but yeah, it seems right.
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